Discussion:
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
(too old to reply)
Cayla
2003-07-02 23:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21

Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??

Vote Yes!!!

http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Timberwoof
2003-07-02 23:40:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Not exactly an unbiased poll, is it? (Vote yes.)
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
http://www.timberwoof.com
Robkamel
2003-07-03 00:18:51 UTC
Permalink
I'll vote yes when all those who don't want to wear helmets agree to sign a
waiver that states they're ineligible for any government paid disability by
doing so.
Joe727
2003-07-03 01:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robkamel
I'll vote yes when all those who don't want to wear helmets agree to sign
a
Post by Robkamel
waiver that states they're ineligible for any government paid disability
by
Post by Robkamel
doing so.
I'm all for let the rider decide. Just don't raise my medical insurance to
pay for all the veggies that are in the hospital on life support. During my
motorcyle safety course, I have two words that describe those that choose
not to wear helmets - "organ donors". I firmly believe in helmets because
one saved my life when a cage broadsided me. So I would wear one based on
personal beliefs and experience even if it wasn't mandated by law in
Virginia.
What about the drunk drivers in cages and the pain and suffering they cause? They are the greater menace.

BTW - do you also wear a full one piece leather riding suit?
RedDevil
2003-07-04 04:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robkamel
I'll vote yes when all those who don't want to wear helmets agree to sign
a
Post by Robkamel
waiver that states they're ineligible for any government paid disability
by
Post by Robkamel
doing so.
I'm all for let the rider decide. Just don't raise my medical insurance to
pay for all the veggies that are in the hospital on life support. During my
motorcyle safety course, I have two words that describe those that choose
not to wear helmets - "organ donors". I firmly believe in helmets because
one saved my life when a cage broadsided me. So I would wear one based on
personal beliefs and experience even if it wasn't mandated by law in
Virginia.
What about the drunk drivers in cages and the pain and suffering they cause?
They are the greater menace.

BTW - do you also wear a full one piece leather riding suit?

No, I don't wear a one piece riding suit, but I do wear a perforated leather
jacket and chaps in the summer and a heavier leather jacket in the spring,
winter and fall.

Red

--------------------------------------------
Harley-Davidson Motor Cycles:
"If I have to explain...
You wouldn't understand."
Robkamel
2003-07-03 02:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive (or
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not to
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from fighting for
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
dgh
2003-07-03 19:11:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive (or
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right.
How often one hears this trite expression. Herd mentality. Actually it is a
conditional right. Which means that *everyone* has the right to do so if
certain criterion are met. A priviledge is something that may be granted at
whim.
dgh
AH#49
2003-07-03 19:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by dgh
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive (or
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right.
How often one hears this trite expression. Herd mentality. Actually it is a
conditional right.
BINGO!

As mentioned in the constitution/BOR as well!
Choochoo
2004-02-23 03:21:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive (or
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not to
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from fighting for
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
Dave
2004-05-05 04:07:09 UTC
Permalink
I'm damned tired of moronic arguments like this one from 'Robkamel'. NO ONE
should be forced to wear a helmet on the street. DOT helmets are rated for
14.7 mph, Schnell rating is twice that but still under 30 mph. If you ride
around the parking lot and fall one of them might do you some good, but ride
on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is limited
visibility, reduced hearing, over heating and enough extra inertia of your
head to snap your neck.The insurance companies love them, though, because
they pay out less for death benefits than they do for injuries. This guy
sounds like a insurance salesman.
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive (or
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not to
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from fighting for
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
Clutchman
2004-05-05 08:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
If you ride
around the parking lot and fall one of them might do you some good, but ride
on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is limited
visibility, reduced hearing, over heating and enough extra inertia of your
head to snap your neck.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?

Clutchman
SBH
2004-05-05 10:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clutchman
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?
Clutchman
I think he's been listening to Abate repetitively and it's brainwashed him.

Look Dave, simple test....put a helmet on your head. Now take a baseball bat
and have someone swing at your head. Tell me what happens. Now, take the
helmet off and have someone swing the bat. I'll have to wait a few months
for you to tell me what happens, that is, if you will be able to tell me at
all.

It's simple. Forget the abate excuses. A helmet can save your life but I
don't agree with forcing adults to wear one. It should be our choice and
that should be the only argument.
Clutchman
2004-05-05 12:50:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by SBH
Post by Clutchman
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?
I think he's been listening to Abate repetitively and it's brainwashed him.
Look Dave, simple test....put a helmet on your head. Now take a baseball bat
and have someone swing at your head. Tell me what happens. Now, take the
helmet off and have someone swing the bat. I'll have to wait a few months
for you to tell me what happens, that is, if you will be able to tell me at
all.
It's simple. Forget the abate excuses. A helmet can save your life but I
don't agree with forcing adults to wear one. It should be our choice and
that should be the only argument.
Well said. I don't agree with the fact that people shoud be forced to wear
a helmet if they don't want to, but I also have something against people who
hear something and figure it's the one and only truth...

Clutchman
Schmoe
2004-05-06 18:01:59 UTC
Permalink
"SBH" <***@softhome.net> wrote in message news:c7afuf$1ibu6$***@ID-129195.news.uni-berlin.de...
whack

BTW, Why are you guys cross-posting this entire thread?
Clutchman
2004-05-07 07:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schmoe
whack
BTW, Why are you guys cross-posting this entire thread?
'cos we don't know where Dave is hiding...?

Clutchman
Schmoe
2004-05-06 18:01:33 UTC
Permalink
"SBH" <***@softhome.net> wrote in message news:c7afuf$1ibu6$***@ID-129195.news.uni-berlin.de...
snip>
Post by SBH
Look Dave, simple test....put a helmet on your head. Now take a baseball bat
and have someone swing at your head. Tell me what happens. Now, take the
helmet off and have someone swing the bat. I'll have to wait a few months
for you to tell me what happens, that is, if you will be able to tell me at
all.
snip

Ok, I tried it.
And I
......feculeeeeiiiiissssskmn,,,,...eejhddddk2@@@@@@@@@@33383333,mkdddl((99dd
dddddjjkaaasssslkdddfk,dwwwk;s9283333348932k,dlasd,mlacas;kdjf9 ouch
Turby
2004-05-05 18:19:17 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 May 2004 10:55:37 +0200, "Clutchman"
Post by Clutchman
Post by Dave
If you ride
around the parking lot and fall one of them might do you some good, but
ride
Post by Dave
on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is limited
visibility, reduced hearing, over heating and enough extra inertia of your
head to snap your neck.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about do you?
What bothers me about the Great Helmet Debate is that it is such a red
herring. It detracts from the real issues. The main issue is, of
course, rider safety. A helmet will only protect your head in an
accident. It won't prevent an accident, nor will it protect any other
part of your body in an accident. The emphasis should be more on how
to _prevent_ accidents. And that means more and better training for
both riders and cage drivers.

Cagers and helmet law proponents often talk about the impact on them
of insurance and medical costs for those non-helmet-wearing head
injuries. Baloney. AIR, the AMA once did a study and found that in
California the year the helmet law went into effect, it affected 12
incidents. If people really cared about their insurance and medical
costs, they'd outlaw tobacco, or go after the obesity issue. Either of
those has a far greater impact on our costs than MC head injuries.

That being said, I wear a full-face _every_ time I get on a bike. What
you do with your head should be your business.

Turby the Turbosurfer
Beauregard T. Shagnasty
2004-05-05 14:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
I'm damned tired of moronic arguments like this one from
'Robkamel'.
<aol>ME TOO!!!!!!1</aol>
Post by Dave
NO ONE should be forced to wear a helmet on the street.
I'll agree. You do whatever you think is equal to the value of your head.
Post by Dave
DOT helmets are rated for 14.7 mph, Schnell rating is twice that
but still under 30 mph. If you ride around the parking lot and fall
one of them might do you some good,
What happens if, in that parking lot, your helmetless head contacts a
car fender at 14.2 mph?
Post by Dave
but ride on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is
limited visibility,
The hole in my fullface helmet is larger than my eyeballs can swivel.
But since my neck swivels, there is no problem seeing anything.
Post by Dave
reduced hearing,
With no wind rushing by my ears, I can hear better with the helmet on
and the shield closed.
Post by Dave
over heating
I open the vents on warm days. Get a helmet with vents. What do you do
on cold days?
Post by Dave
and enough extra inertia of your head to snap your neck.
We all know that there are various types of accidents and there is no
one cure-all. Same in cars. Sometimes seat belts or airbags can be a
detriment, but /almost/ /every/ /time/ they are worthwhile.
Post by Dave
The insurance companies love them, though, because they pay out
less for death benefits than they do for injuries. This guy sounds
like a insurance salesman. "Choochoo"
I could relate the story about the time I hit a deer at over 65mph and
landed on my chin, but you wouldn't understand.
--
-bts
-This space intentionally left blank.
Dons
2004-05-05 17:00:23 UTC
Permalink
Go to a rally ask for anyone who has put a bike down with helmet on, they
might have the worn piece of junk that was pertty once and now is full of
scrapes. Now go look for someone with roadrash face, ask how it happened,
if you dare.

I watched a friend fly over the front of his bike and land on shoulder and
helmet and scrape helmet for about 50', he got harleyed from behind at about
35mph. Not his fault doing nothing wrong. He jumped up and ran back to
check on his wife in the sidecar. He was sore the next day and really mad
at the fact that he was rearended and wrecked their new BMW.

Now try same thing without full face and then you can come back and talk
about it.......
john
2004-05-31 23:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dons
Go to a rally ask for anyone who has put a bike down with helmet on, they
might have the worn piece of junk that was pertty once and now is full of
scrapes. Now go look for someone with roadrash face, ask how it happened,
if you dare.
I watched a friend fly over the front of his bike and land on shoulder and
helmet and scrape helmet for about 50', he got harleyed from behind at about
35mph. Not his fault doing nothing wrong. He jumped up and ran back to
check on his wife in the sidecar. He was sore the next day and really mad
at the fact that he was rearended and wrecked their new BMW.
Now try same thing without full face and then you can come back and talk
about it.......
Used to watch my friend mount his motorcycle with tennis shoes, gym shorts,
and a full face helmet. He will live to feel the skin dissappear from the
rest of his body. He got 15 years for selling drugs.
Nemo S.
2004-06-01 07:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by john
Used to watch my friend mount his motorcycle with tennis shoes, gym shorts,
and a full face helmet. He will live to feel the skin dissappear from the
rest of his body.
Yeah I had one of those too and he did, right from a brand new NINJA
when they first came out, he had never ridden before and only had it 6
weeks was in the hospital for 6 months get out and 3 weeks later does
it AGAIN, I don't know what ever happened to him after that as I just
could not stand watching this guy kill himself, as far as helmets go I
use mine in traffic and inclement weather, but when the road is open
and no traffic for miles the sun is shinning and I just want to cruise
no helmet and that is the only time I think it's safe ..

You can't save someone from themselves, by the same token it's a save
your own ass program I don't think there should be a law nor should a
person be penalized for NOT wearing one, I do believe education is the
best line I know when to wear mine and I know when it's O.K not to
wear it to me it's common sense, of course I don't go fast anyways I
like to cruise and in my personal opinion crotch rockets should be
BANNED from the public streets and hiways and freeways as they are
designed for the race track and that is where they should be kept ...

I have had 3 friends die all on crotch rockets of all the accidents I
have seen only 1 was a cruiser I don't know what the national average
is I can only go with what I have seen ..


~Nemo~

Keep the right side up ...


~Nemo~
Joe Schmoe
2004-05-05 20:00:03 UTC
Permalink
yes
'Key
2004-05-05 21:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave
I'm damned tired of moronic arguments like this one from
'Robkamel'. NO ONE
Post by Dave
should be forced to wear a helmet on the street. DOT
helmets are rated for
Post by Dave
14.7 mph, Schnell rating is twice that but still under 30
mph. If you ride
Post by Dave
around the parking lot and fall one of them might do you
some good, but ride
Post by Dave
on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is
limited
Post by Dave
visibility, reduced hearing, over heating and enough extra
inertia of your
Post by Dave
head to snap your neck.The insurance companies love them,
though, because
Post by Dave
they pay out less for death benefits than they do for
injuries. This guy
Post by Dave
sounds like a insurance salesman.
bull !!!
had a wreak (on the street) where my helmet got ccraped down
to the styrophoam.
with out it, I wouldn't be here telling you about it.
however,
I do believe that you should have the right to smash your
head if you wish !

g'day
--
"Key"
TKHawaii
2004-05-06 17:42:54 UTC
Permalink
If you have ever worked with a brain injured individual (from a motorcyle
accident, no helmet) there would be no question in your mind that helmets
should be worn. There is NO recovery from such an injury, NO more riding, NO
more caring for yourself, NO more enjoyment of life. I for one want more of
life, not less. It is your choice.
Post by Dave
I'm damned tired of moronic arguments like this one from 'Robkamel'. NO ONE
should be forced to wear a helmet on the street. DOT helmets are rated for
14.7 mph, Schnell rating is twice that but still under 30 mph. If you ride
around the parking lot and fall one of them might do you some good, but ride
on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is limited
visibility, reduced hearing, over heating and enough extra inertia of your
head to snap your neck.The insurance companies love them, though, because
they pay out less for death benefits than they do for injuries. This guy
sounds like a insurance salesman.
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive
(or
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not
to
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from
fighting
Post by Dave
for
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
2004-05-06 19:04:18 UTC
Permalink
All good arguments back and forth. My thoughts are simple though. I
do wear a brain bucket around town and in commuter traffic. The vast
majority of fallen brethern are taken out by Granny backing out and
not looking, or some cager flinging a door open in traffic in your
path to do something like check their tire pressure. The VAST # of
injuries to motorcyclists are in traffic not the open road.

The highway is another matter. Out there there is actually a much
smaller chance of getting hit or hitting something. I'm not saying it
doesn't happen, it's much rarer though.

My big gripe is watching squiddies in tee shirts, shorts and tennis
shoes, WHILE wearing a helmet doing incredibly stupid things. They
seem to think it makes them safe. There are other serious injuries
possible, like pulling raod rash that is as bad as a 3rd degree burn
over 40% of your body. Just becuase a granny pulled out with out
looking.

Makes me wear heavy shoes or boots, jeans, gloves (during summer
"finger gloves") and a sensible shirt, every time I go for a putt!


-----------------
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TKHawaii
2004-05-06 23:46:43 UTC
Permalink
It is worse here in Hawaii, you see guys riding in a cut off tee shirt,
shorts and rubber slippers....no helmet or course. Try to anything while
wearing a pair of rubber flip-flops.
Post by Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
All good arguments back and forth. My thoughts are simple though. I
do wear a brain bucket around town and in commuter traffic. The vast
majority of fallen brethern are taken out by Granny backing out and
not looking, or some cager flinging a door open in traffic in your
path to do something like check their tire pressure. The VAST # of
injuries to motorcyclists are in traffic not the open road.
The highway is another matter. Out there there is actually a much
smaller chance of getting hit or hitting something. I'm not saying it
doesn't happen, it's much rarer though.
My big gripe is watching squiddies in tee shirts, shorts and tennis
shoes, WHILE wearing a helmet doing incredibly stupid things. They
seem to think it makes them safe. There are other serious injuries
possible, like pulling raod rash that is as bad as a 3rd degree burn
over 40% of your body. Just becuase a granny pulled out with out
looking.
Makes me wear heavy shoes or boots, jeans, gloves (during summer
"finger gloves") and a sensible shirt, every time I go for a putt!
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Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------
Turby
2004-05-07 08:05:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2004 14:04:18 -0500, "Mr. Tawny the talking tiger"
Post by Mr. Tawny the talking tiger
My big gripe is watching squiddies in tee shirts, shorts and tennis
shoes, WHILE wearing a helmet doing incredibly stupid things. They
seem to think it makes them safe.
Nah, safe doesn't enter into it. They wear a helmet because the law
says they have to. It's a waste of money, it looks ugly, feels dorky,
and is a pain in the ass. They don't need it because they're hot shit.
They know how to ride, and they're not going to crash. They're
invincible.
(hey, when _I_ was a teenager, I didn't _want_ to live past 35. I
figured it meant I wasn't living hard enough.)

Turby the Turbosurfer
Bill
2004-05-17 03:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Leave poor Robkamel alone. He can nail all the shit to his forehead he
wants. <G>

I wear a helmet when I want (like in the cold), or when I have to.
Otherwise I feel that the risks far outweigh the benefits. But again, my
choice. Choose for you ownself--this is America, right?

Put too many damn qualifications on freedom and you ain't got freedom.
Post by Dave
I'm damned tired of moronic arguments like this one from 'Robkamel'. NO ONE
should be forced to wear a helmet on the street. DOT helmets are rated for
14.7 mph, Schnell rating is twice that but still under 30 mph. If you ride
around the parking lot and fall one of them might do you some good, but ride
on the street or highway with a helmet and all you get is limited
visibility, reduced hearing, over heating and enough extra inertia of your
head to snap your neck.The insurance companies love them, though, because
they pay out less for death benefits than they do for injuries. This guy
sounds like a insurance salesman.
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive
(or
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not
to
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from
fighting
Post by Dave
for
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
Jeff Strickland
2004-05-06 19:53:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive (or
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not to
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from fighting for
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
No he isn't, everybody knows shit sticks to your forehead without using
nails.

I think if you want to ride, and they say you need a helmet, then you should
wear the damn helmet and move on to the next state where they don't give a
shit what you do to yourself. Operating a motor vehicle is not a right, it
is a privelige and is therefore subject to rules and regulations. You can
either follow the rules and regulations, or walk. You can bitch about the
rules and regulations, but you should follow them until they are changed, or
walk while you are bitching.
NoirRider
2004-05-07 01:58:44 UTC
Permalink
I doubt there is any legal basis for the "right vs. privelege"
argument. More probable is that it's a mantra your high school drivers
ed teacher used to sell the idea of civic responsibility. I'm sure
every DMV repeats it, so it must be true, neh?

Here's the straight scoop. Driving is a regulated activity. If you
don't like the regulations, work on changing them.
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive
(or
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not
to
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from fighting
for
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
No he isn't, everybody knows shit sticks to your forehead without using
nails.
I think if you want to ride, and they say you need a helmet, then you should
wear the damn helmet and move on to the next state where they don't give a
shit what you do to yourself. Operating a motor vehicle is not a right, it
is a privelige and is therefore subject to rules and regulations. You can
either follow the rules and regulations, or walk. You can bitch about the
rules and regulations, but you should follow them until they are changed, or
walk while you are bitching.
Jeff Strickland
2004-05-07 16:06:47 UTC
Permalink
I am almost 100% positive that you just said the exact same thing as I said.
Operating a motor vehicle is highly regulated, and helemts are among thos
regulations. If yo udon't like the regulations, work to change them, but you
had better observe them until such time as you can affect change.

Personally, I think that bitching about helmet laws is a waste of time and
effort.
Post by NoirRider
I doubt there is any legal basis for the "right vs. privelege"
argument. More probable is that it's a mantra your high school drivers
ed teacher used to sell the idea of civic responsibility. I'm sure
every DMV repeats it, so it must be true, neh?
Here's the straight scoop. Driving is a regulated activity. If you
don't like the regulations, work on changing them.
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to drive
(or
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be no
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or not
to
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or "freedom of
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers to
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life, thats
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying the
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from fighting
for
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
No he isn't, everybody knows shit sticks to your forehead without using
nails.
I think if you want to ride, and they say you need a helmet, then you should
wear the damn helmet and move on to the next state where they don't give a
shit what you do to yourself. Operating a motor vehicle is not a right, it
is a privelige and is therefore subject to rules and regulations. You can
either follow the rules and regulations, or walk. You can bitch about the
rules and regulations, but you should follow them until they are changed, or
walk while you are bitching.
RainLover
2004-05-11 13:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeff Strickland
I am almost 100% positive that you just said the exact same thing as I said.
Operating a motor vehicle is highly regulated, and helemts are among thos
regulations. If yo udon't like the regulations, work to change them, but you
had better observe them until such time as you can affect change.
Personally, I think that bitching about helmet laws is a waste of time and
effort.
Post by NoirRider
I doubt there is any legal basis for the "right vs. privelege"
argument. More probable is that it's a mantra your high school drivers
ed teacher used to sell the idea of civic responsibility. I'm sure
every DMV repeats it, so it must be true, neh?
Here's the straight scoop. Driving is a regulated activity. If you
don't like the regulations, work on changing them.
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to
drive
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
(or
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be
no
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or
not
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
to
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or
"freedom of
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers
to
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life,
thats
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying
the
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from
fighting
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
for
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
No he isn't, everybody knows shit sticks to your forehead without using
nails.
I think if you want to ride, and they say you need a helmet, then you
should
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
wear the damn helmet and move on to the next state where they don't give
a
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
shit what you do to yourself. Operating a motor vehicle is not a right,
it
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
is a privelige and is therefore subject to rules and regulations. You
can
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
either follow the rules and regulations, or walk. You can bitch about
the
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
rules and regulations, but you should follow them until they are
changed, or
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
walk while you are bitching.
I'm all for getting rid of all helmet laws (as well as seatbelt laws) with two
caveats:

1. Insurance companies will have the right NOT to pay for any head injuries
suffered in an accident.

2. No hospital will be required to to take a motorcycler rider with head
injuries if he/she wasn't wearing a helmet.


Of course.. these would NEVER fly. Could you imagine the media outrage if a
hospital or insurance company simply let someone die from injuries?

It's bad enough I see motorcycle riders riding in tennis shoes and shorts (and
nothing else)... if a motorcycle rider doesn't want to wear their helmet.. I
say FINE, but don't expect ANYONE to pay for them to get better if they are
injured.
Garrak
2004-05-12 00:59:33 UTC
Permalink
If you don't like to where a helment drive a car.
I took a spill 20 years ago. Still walking, talking and screwing.
Post by RainLover
Post by Jeff Strickland
I am almost 100% positive that you just said the exact same thing as I said.
Operating a motor vehicle is highly regulated, and helemts are among thos
regulations. If yo udon't like the regulations, work to change them, but you
had better observe them until such time as you can affect change.
Personally, I think that bitching about helmet laws is a waste of time and
effort.
Post by NoirRider
I doubt there is any legal basis for the "right vs. privelege"
argument. More probable is that it's a mantra your high school drivers
ed teacher used to sell the idea of civic responsibility. I'm sure
every DMV repeats it, so it must be true, neh?
Here's the straight scoop. Driving is a regulated activity. If you
don't like the regulations, work on changing them.
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 02:04:59 GMT, "Robkamel"
Post by Robkamel
Whew........that was one long leap in logic. LOL The ability to
drive
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
(or
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
ride in this case) is a priviledge, not a right. Thus, there can be
no
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
"right" to choose, just like there in no right to choose whether or
not
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
to
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
stop at stop lights under the guise of "freedom to choose" or
"freedom of
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
expression". On the other hand, if you can convince enough lawmakers
to
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
grant the priviledge of choosing whether or not to risk your life,
thats
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
cool, I just hope those of us who are smarter don't get stuck paying
the
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
bills. This whole helmet thing is only a hairsbreadth away from
fighting
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
for
Post by Choochoo
Post by Robkamel
your right to nail shit to your forehead with a nailgun.
come on everyone, listen to Robkamel..........tomorrow he's gonna tell
us which books we should read he's soooo smart
No he isn't, everybody knows shit sticks to your forehead without using
nails.
I think if you want to ride, and they say you need a helmet, then you
should
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
wear the damn helmet and move on to the next state where they don't give
a
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
shit what you do to yourself. Operating a motor vehicle is not a right,
it
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
is a privelige and is therefore subject to rules and regulations. You
can
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
either follow the rules and regulations, or walk. You can bitch about
the
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
rules and regulations, but you should follow them until they are
changed, or
Post by NoirRider
Post by Jeff Strickland
walk while you are bitching.
I'm all for getting rid of all helmet laws (as well as seatbelt laws) with two
1. Insurance companies will have the right NOT to pay for any head injuries
suffered in an accident.
2. No hospital will be required to to take a motorcycler rider with head
injuries if he/she wasn't wearing a helmet.
Of course.. these would NEVER fly. Could you imagine the media outrage if a
hospital or insurance company simply let someone die from injuries?
It's bad enough I see motorcycle riders riding in tennis shoes and shorts (and
nothing else)... if a motorcycle rider doesn't want to wear their helmet.. I
say FINE, but don't expect ANYONE to pay for them to get better if they are
injured.
charles
2003-07-03 03:25:08 UTC
Permalink
Here in Texas we do have a choice as it should be. It's none of anyones
Damn business if we wear them or not.
Period...
Post by Robkamel
I'll vote yes when all those who don't want to wear helmets agree to sign a
waiver that states they're ineligible for any government paid disability by
doing so.
Timberwoof
2003-07-03 03:57:42 UTC
Permalink
What do we ER staff call motorcycle crash victims who do wear helmets?
paraplegics...
What's your pet name for people who get mangled in car wrecks? How about
folks who breathe in little cubes of glass? Or people who get flug out
of cars because they didn't wear a seat belt -- do you have cute names
for them?


Actually, I have noticed a tendency for hospital staff to latch onto one
thing about any particular patient and use that as their identifying
trait. For instance, when I was in hospital overnight for minor heart
surgery, I got pegged as the hockey player even though I do a whole lot
more than that. My roommate, whose spleen had burst and needed removing
because of a motorcycle accident, was pegged as the risk-taker. (BTW, he
was wearing helmet and full leathers. Other than the spleen and
temporary nerve damage to his leg, he had no injuries.)
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
sjwolf
2003-07-05 00:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Paraplegic ... result of spinal cord damage ... often caused by some well
intentioned person trying to remove a helmet or the hyperextention caused by
the additional weight of the helmet ... helmets can often save a life but at
what cost to the later quality .... let the rider decide ... there are many
pro and cons ....
What do we ER staff call motorcycle crash victims who do wear helmets?
paraplegics...
~D
Post by Robkamel
I'll vote yes when all those who don't want to wear helmets agree to
sign
a
Post by Robkamel
waiver that states they're ineligible for any government paid
disability
by
Post by Robkamel
doing so.
I'm all for let the rider decide. Just don't raise my medical insurance
to
pay for all the veggies that are in the hospital on life support.
During
my
motorcyle safety course, I have two words that describe those that
choose
not to wear helmets - "organ donors". I firmly believe in helmets
because
one saved my life when a cage broadsided me. So I would wear one based
on
personal beliefs and experience even if it wasn't mandated by law in
Virginia.
Sir Robin the Chickenhearted
2003-07-08 05:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by sjwolf
Paraplegic ... result of spinal cord damage ... often caused by some well
intentioned person trying to remove a helmet or the hyperextention caused by
the additional weight of the helmet ... helmets can often save a life but at
what cost to the later quality .... let the rider decide ... there are many
pro and cons ....
Hyperextension caused by weight of helmet? WTF? A good FF helmet weighs
less than my boots. Why aren't you trying to tell me the weight of the
boots will break my ankles? I also can't come up with a mental model of
how such an injury would occur. Yes, dumbshits trying to take your
helmet off at the accident scene could be a problem, but you might
survive a head injury and be a shambling, drooling retard. This is an
even more piss-poor quality of life, IMO, than riding a motorized
wheelchair. I'm gonna opt for the helmet.
Brad
2003-07-09 21:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sir Robin the Chickenhearted
Hyperextension caused by weight of helmet? WTF? A good FF helmet weighs
less than my boots. Why aren't you trying to tell me the weight of the
boots will break my ankles? I also can't come up with a mental model of
how such an injury would occur. Yes, dumbshits trying to take your
helmet off at the accident scene could be a problem, but you might
survive a head injury and be a shambling, drooling retard. This is an
even more piss-poor quality of life, IMO, than riding a motorized
wheelchair. I'm gonna opt for the helmet.
C'mon...make sense will you? If a helmet was designed like a boot, so
as to cover up the joint in jeopardy (neck/ankle) you likely would not
damage the joint. (Nor would you be able to turn your head) Your
analogy makes no sense since the ankle is by nature a much stronger
joint than your neck. It carries the entire weight of your body, not
just the weight of your foot.

As far as the weight of the helmet goes...in an accident there are
forces much greater than normal gravity....it gets multiplied.
Remember those old commercials about child restraints in cars? How you
can't hold on to a child because the childs weight multiplies due to
g-force? Now apply those g-forces to your "lighter than my boots" 16
ounce helmet and it just became a 15 to 20 pound helmet. Try strapping
15 pounds to your head and roll down a grass hill at the local park,
then enjoy your rehabilitation. A safer way to prove this weight thing
is to use inertia instead. Put your helmet on and whip your head back
and forth several times. How light is that helmet now? Take some
Tylenol before going to bed.

OK...About this whole helmet thing: Besides the obvious physical pros
and cons of helmet wearing I'll try to explain what the hubub is all
about.... (Those of you that have been around for awhile will
agree...those invincible crotch rocket riders might stand to learn
something here)

The argument about pro choice was never really about whether or not
you are better off in an accident with a helmet on, because you
probably are in many cases. It's also not about these dead horse
arguments....

....You can't see as much with a helmet because it blocks your
peripheral vision /// yes you can because the wind isn't in your eyes.
....You can't hear as well with a helmet because it muffles everything
/// yes you can because it quiets wind noise.
....You cant turn your head as fast because the helmet is heavy ///
yes you can because it's light!
....You don't wear one because you think you don't look cool /// I
don't care if I look cool or not.
....Racers wear them /// racers are doing things you shouldn't be
doing on the street.
Blah blah blah...the list of arguments is endless...

The original argument is that you are "LESS LIKELY TO GET INTO AN
ACCIDENT IN THE FIRST PLACE WITHOUT A HELMET"!

Bottom line...helmets give a false sense of security. This is a
generalized statement of course. Obviously this is not the case for
everyone. Those of you that like to carve up the canyon roads would be
less than smart not to wear a helmet. As are the morons that I see
here in Phoenix blasting through traffic at "break neck speeds". <<<
(where'd that term come from?) Blasting through traffic is stupid with
or without one.

Personaly, not wearing one puts me in this frame of mind... "I'm going
to hit that car/obstacle...now I need to adjust my speed based on how
hard I want to hit it".

My choice not to wear one...don't take that away from me.

--harleyrdr1
Mr. Creosote
2003-07-10 02:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brad
Post by Brad
As far as the weight of the helmet goes...in an accident there are
forces much greater than normal gravity....it gets multiplied.
Remember those old commercials about child restraints in cars? How you
can't hold on to a child because the childs weight multiplies due to
g-force? Now apply those g-forces to your "lighter than my boots" 16
ounce helmet and it just became a 15 to 20 pound helmet. Try strapping
15 pounds to your head and roll down a grass hill at the local park,
then enjoy your rehabilitation. A safer way to prove this weight thing
is to use inertia instead. Put your helmet on and whip your head back
and forth several times. How light is that helmet now? Take some
Tylenol before going to bed.
I use a neck machine at the gym with 75 lbs. of weights on it. 15 lbs?
still not enough that it's going to send me to the chiropractor if I
perform the experiment you describe.
Let's think about car crashes. People suffer whiplash, which is a
soft-tissue injury, from getting their heads thrown about. Broken necks
happen when the head strikes something, such as a dash or windshield,
forcing their head back very rapidly at a very extreme angle. Race car
drivers wear helmets. Sometimes they crash. They seem to get leg
injuries and/ or head injuries. They aren't becoming quadriplegics right
and left.
Post by Brad
The original argument is that you are "LESS LIKELY TO GET INTO AN
ACCIDENT IN THE FIRST PLACE WITHOUT A HELMET"!
Bottom line...helmets give a false sense of security. This is a
generalized statement of course. Obviously this is not the case for
everyone. Those of you that like to carve up the canyon roads would be
less than smart not to wear a helmet. As are the morons that I see
here in Phoenix blasting through traffic at "break neck speeds". <<<
(where'd that term come from?) Blasting through traffic is stupid with
or without one.
Personaly, not wearing one puts me in this frame of mind... "I'm going
to hit that car/obstacle...now I need to adjust my speed based on how
hard I want to hit it".
My choice not to wear one...don't take that away from me.
Rubbish. I'm not going to assume I'm invincible because I've got a fucking
helmet on. I doubt that most riders are really suffering from the degree of
brain damage that would allow them to think that. Anyone that does
deserves what they get. A helmet is a further strategy to reduce the
chance that I'll be a vegetable or dead. Even if I did think it would
save me from every conceivable head injury under any set of
circumstances, there's still the discomfort and possible long-term
disability from injuries to other parts of the body to consider, and the
price of replacing a totaled bike. It still wouldn't make me careless.
As for choice, I'm actually for it. My position on riding
bare-headed is "Darwin will know his own. Do whatever you like." Same
position I take on heroin use, playing with explosives, eating at Mickey
D's, and many other things that might not be a really good idea.
closed
2003-07-10 12:27:47 UTC
Permalink
Odontoid fracture or hangman's fracture is a C1 - C2 fracture or the
breaking of the little post that your head turns on ... I've seen them in
people who have fallen out of chairs side ways and NOT hit their heads -
Usually VERY fatal - that's why its knows as a hangman's fracture the real
way to hang someone and kill them quickly is to tie the rope at the base of
the skull with the knot on the side of the neck... if you put it behind the
neck it does not break the neck and it takes the person 5-6 minutes to die -
very horrible... but that's another post ~D
Post by Mr. Creosote
Post by Brad
Post by Brad
As far as the weight of the helmet goes...in an accident there are
forces much greater than normal gravity....it gets multiplied.
Remember those old commercials about child restraints in cars? How you
can't hold on to a child because the childs weight multiplies due to
g-force? Now apply those g-forces to your "lighter than my boots" 16
ounce helmet and it just became a 15 to 20 pound helmet. Try strapping
15 pounds to your head and roll down a grass hill at the local park,
then enjoy your rehabilitation. A safer way to prove this weight thing
is to use inertia instead. Put your helmet on and whip your head back
and forth several times. How light is that helmet now? Take some
Tylenol before going to bed.
I use a neck machine at the gym with 75 lbs. of weights on it. 15 lbs?
still not enough that it's going to send me to the chiropractor if I
perform the experiment you describe.
Let's think about car crashes. People suffer whiplash, which is a
soft-tissue injury, from getting their heads thrown about. Broken necks
happen when the head strikes something, such as a dash or windshield,
forcing their head back very rapidly at a very extreme angle. Race car
drivers wear helmets. Sometimes they crash. They seem to get leg
injuries and/ or head injuries. They aren't becoming quadriplegics right
and left.
Post by Brad
The original argument is that you are "LESS LIKELY TO GET INTO AN
ACCIDENT IN THE FIRST PLACE WITHOUT A HELMET"!
Bottom line...helmets give a false sense of security. This is a
generalized statement of course. Obviously this is not the case for
everyone. Those of you that like to carve up the canyon roads would be
less than smart not to wear a helmet. As are the morons that I see
here in Phoenix blasting through traffic at "break neck speeds". <<<
(where'd that term come from?) Blasting through traffic is stupid with
or without one.
Personaly, not wearing one puts me in this frame of mind... "I'm going
to hit that car/obstacle...now I need to adjust my speed based on how
hard I want to hit it".
My choice not to wear one...don't take that away from me.
Rubbish. I'm not going to assume I'm invincible because I've got a fucking
helmet on. I doubt that most riders are really suffering from the degree of
brain damage that would allow them to think that. Anyone that does
deserves what they get. A helmet is a further strategy to reduce the
chance that I'll be a vegetable or dead. Even if I did think it would
save me from every conceivable head injury under any set of
circumstances, there's still the discomfort and possible long-term
disability from injuries to other parts of the body to consider, and the
price of replacing a totaled bike. It still wouldn't make me careless.
As for choice, I'm actually for it. My position on riding
bare-headed is "Darwin will know his own. Do whatever you like." Same
position I take on heroin use, playing with explosives, eating at Mickey
D's, and many other things that might not be a really good idea.
Stephen K. Gielda
2003-07-10 14:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Creosote
As for choice, I'm actually for it. My position on riding
bare-headed is "Darwin will know his own. Do whatever you like." Same
position I take on heroin use, playing with explosives, eating at Mickey
D's, and many other things that might not be a really good idea.
Like riding a motorcycle.

/steve
--
http://www.cotse.net
A very unique privacy service, no other service compares.
E-mail, Usenet, Anon Proxies, Web Hosting, and more.
No one gives you more control over your e-mail than we do!
http://www.cotse.net/servicedetails.html
Terry
2003-07-10 20:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Wasn't Dale Earnhardt wearing a hemet? Yet he died of a head injury. So
did race driver Ayrton Sienna...Point is, helmets aren't 100% effective
against head injuries anyway, so let the rider decide to wear or not to
wear one. I choose to wear mine all the time when I ride, but its my
choice only, not anyone else's, and I don't think its my, or the
government's, right to tell someone else that they have to conform to a
law so that they can "be safe". Law or no law, a person is going to ride
as safely as they want to anyway, and the consequences should be theirs
should they decide to become reckless.
Post by Stephen K. Gielda
Post by Mr. Creosote
As for choice, I'm actually for it. My position on riding
bare-headed is "Darwin will know his own. Do whatever you like." Same
position I take on heroin use, playing with explosives, eating at Mickey
D's, and many other things that might not be a really good idea.
Like riding a motorcycle.
/steve
TKHawaii
2003-07-03 00:18:41 UTC
Permalink
Here in Hawaii, you do have that option and we exercise it. You can do the
same if you can persuade your legislature to amend current laws, that's what
we did.

Ride the way you want to....just safely.
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Elvis Presley
2003-07-03 03:55:58 UTC
Permalink
I've been in a few accidents on motorcycles but I still think choice
is the best thing regarding helmets. The sound of your helmet grinding
on pavement after some 90 year old bitch driving a Caddy pulls out in
front of you is the main reason I ever wear a helmet.
In the city I wear a full face , no matter what, on the highway it's
a lot easier to predict what the cagers are going to do, so usually no
helmet.
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
G
2003-07-03 12:39:47 UTC
Permalink
If you ever had the misfortune of hitting the pavement you will
realize that not wearing a helmet may be fatal. If you don't wear a
helmet and fall I don't want to pay to have you hooked up to a machine
to keep you alive so I guess if you sign some type of waver that
prevents you from collecting government funds from everyone else I will
agree.
Hey this is just my opinion.
Glen
87 HD FLTC
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Stephen K. Gielda
2003-07-03 13:49:15 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@giganews.com>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by G
If you ever had the misfortune of hitting the pavement you will
realize that not wearing a helmet may be fatal. If you don't wear a
helmet and fall I don't want to pay to have you hooked up to a machine
to keep you alive so I guess if you sign some type of waver that
prevents you from collecting government funds from everyone else I will
agree.
Hey this is just my opinion.
Ahead of time, I always wear a helmet even though I mostly ride in areas
that are freedom of choice, my choice is a helmet. That said...

If you ever had the misfortune of hitting the pavement you will realize
that even while wearing a helmet it may be fatal. Just by getting on a
motorcycle you have made a safety choice with which the majority of the
population does not agree. Risk is a choice, you made one most people
would not agree with when you decided on a bike instead of a volvo.
Others make one you don't agree with when they go sans helmet. It's
choice.

As far as the argument that others freedom of choice will result in
higher bills for you, statistics do not back that. States currently
without helmet laws do not show increased fatalities or medical costs
over states currently with mandatory helmet laws. Being pro law to
force helmets is no different than being pro law to force no bikes.
Both would be based upon the misguided opinion that it's not acceptable
to allow anyone else to take risks the majority would not take because
it might cost them extra money.

/steve
--
http://www.cotse.net
A very unique privacy service, no other service compares.
E-mail, Usenet, Anon Proxies, Web Hosting, and more.
No one gives you more control over your e-mail than we do!
http://www.cotse.net/servicedetails.html
Timberwoof
2003-07-04 07:28:10 UTC
Permalink
G wrote...
If you don't wear a helmet and fall I don't want
to pay to have you hooked up to a machine to keep
you alive
How about when I have a heart attack from eating too
much red meat? Want to ban McDonalds too?
Hell. You're right.

Next, they'll want to regulate the spacing of two-by-fours in any hourse
you build, or stupid stuff like the slope of the drain from the upstairs
toilet or the thickness of electrical wiring to the plugs. Do you really
want the government in your bed room like that? Hell ... it's bad enough
that the government requires hotel builders to install fire suppression
systems, and factory contructors to install enough emergency exits! What
are they thinking, with all this unwarranted intrusion in our lives?
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
David Ward
2003-07-04 11:16:24 UTC
Permalink
: G wrote...
: > If you don't wear a helmet and fall I don't want
: > to pay to have you hooked up to a machine to keep
: > you alive
:

Why would you? You think your tax dollars would
ever make it to my hospital bill? I, for one, don't see
how. I also don't see how you'd pay for my injuries
when they were actually caused by the helmet.

Finally, don't see why anyone should regulate my
safety - and in this case - especially when they are wrong.

Dave
Timberwoof
2003-07-04 18:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Ward
: G wrote...
: > If you don't wear a helmet and fall I don't want
: > to pay to have you hooked up to a machine to keep
: > you alive
Why would you? You think your tax dollars would
ever make it to my hospital bill? I, for one, don't see
how. I also don't see how you'd pay for my injuries
when they were actually caused by the helmet.
If you live in the same state, they would. And what injuries are you
talking about being caused by a helmet? Do you think that helmets cause
more injuries than they prevent?
Post by David Ward
Finally, don't see why anyone should regulate my
safety -
If it's that important, then I'd like to see you whine and holler about
building codes.
Post by David Ward
and in this case - especially when they are wrong.
Ah! Proof by assertion.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
in2minds
2003-07-03 13:17:06 UTC
Permalink
"Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of
21"
[..]

in America ? of course it should...

only stupid punts don't wear a helmet and the less of them there are the
better the world will be (c;

LJ
"KATO"
2003-07-03 23:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Check it out, then vote! Graphic images that may offend!

http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/news.php?artc=5340&s=e74768982787a90648400002eff555de
Timberwoof
2003-07-04 00:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by "KATO"
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of
21
Post by Cayla
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Check it out, then vote! Graphic images that may offend!
http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/news.php?artc=5340&s=e74768982787a90648400002eff555de
No, don't. These are horrid.
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
Pointman
2003-08-12 01:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by "KATO"
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle
riders? OVER the age of
Post by "KATO"
21
Post by Cayla
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Check it out, then vote! Graphic images that may offend!
http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/news.php?artc=5340&s=e74768982787a90648400002eff555de
Since a helmet, to meet DOT, has to withstand an impact of
only 7 MPH, it would be interesting to know the speed these
"examples" were traveling. Pictures without facts are a
cheap shot cheaters trick.
--
"When I read about the evils of drinking,
I gave up reading"

'Henny Youngman'
KATO
2003-08-12 02:14:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cayla
Post by "KATO"
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle
riders? OVER the age of
Post by "KATO"
21
Post by Cayla
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Check it out, then vote! Graphic images that may offend!
http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/news.php?artc=5340&s=e74768982787a90648400002eff555de
Post by Cayla
Since a helmet, to meet DOT, has to withstand an impact of
only 7 MPH, it would be interesting to know the speed these
"examples" were traveling. Pictures without facts are a
cheap shot cheaters trick.
It has been proven helmets save lives,Tons of research proves it. The only
arguement is the freedom of choice to wear one or not! If your not going to
wear a lid then you should automatically be responsible for any injuries and
not place the burden of your injuries if you survive on society!

Same thing for leathers, I know countless people who suffered terrible road
rash that would have walked away sore by wearing protective gear. 18 months
of skin graphs later to decide not to wear shorts and a t-shirt!

Protective gear assists but is not a 100% guarantee, It's all about choices!
Post by Cayla
--
"When I read about the evils of drinking,
I gave up reading"
'Henny Youngman'
hunter
2003-08-14 18:46:39 UTC
Permalink
"Nathan W. Collier" <***@A0L.com> wrote in message news:

<snip>
i dont think thats it at all. i think it boils down to a matter of control.
a certain segment of society just doesnt think the rest of us are capable of
making our own decisions and they wont be satisified until they have
legislated every facet of our lives. i think it boils down to a power
struggle between those who think for themselves, and those who want to think
for them. theres certainly nothing new about this power struggle, and its
definately not limited to motorcycle helmets.
while i feel helmets are a good safety measure and i would never ride
without one, i _dont_ need my government dictating my personal safety
choices and you dont either.
the part that amazes me most is that considering the vast numbers of bikers,
a united political front could get these laws repealed. i see many bikers
doing many great things for many great causes, and i think we should all
pause our efforts elsewhere just long enough to focus a little political
muscle towards these socialist laws that are unjust to start with.
I agree with you 100%. You are exactly right. It is prevalent
throughout, seatbelt laws, bicycle helmet laws, etc. Hell, in the
DC,VA,MD area they actually are installing cross walk countdown timer
displays to augment the hands and walk/don't walk signs because people
can't figure out on their own when it is safe to cross. We can't
read, we can't determine if cars are coming, we can't make it on our
own! I always try to spread the word and get people to vote.

Ride safe and spread the word.

//Hunter
Nathan W. Collier
2003-08-14 19:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by hunter
I agree with you 100%. You are exactly right.
next question, what can we do about it? i see many local level
organizations but individually their numbers dont amount to any political
clout. the only way to make an impact on these laws is through a united
front made up of all bikers who are simply fed up with being told they
_have_ to wear helmets. does any such organization exist? i dont know why
the manufacturers have not banded together to start one.

......then again maybe i do. if the manufacturers took a stance and
somebody got killed when they werent wearing a helmet some blood sucking
attorney would.....
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
Nathan W. Collier
2003-08-15 20:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Join ABATE and get involved.
consider it done!
I think it is absurd and a blatant overstepping of the
government to tell me how I must keep myself safe. I don't mind being
informed about the issue but let me decide!
i agree with you 100%. the government cannot manage its own affairs, much
less mine.
--
Nathan W. Collier
http://7SlotGrille.com
John
2003-08-21 03:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Just a quick note on the subject.
In Texas now they make you get an exempt sticker if you are caught on
a bike without the sticker without a helmet you can be ticketed. The
requirements for the sticker is simple, major medical insurance and
8.00 processing fee.

I beleive this is reasonable, I wish they would let me get an exempt
sticker for my truck seatbelt. :)

It solves the argument of who pays for life support when you scramble
your brains....

Only down fall is the exempt sticker is on the bike not the person.
Jim
2003-08-12 03:50:33 UTC
Permalink
I say it should be the rider's choice BUT maybe they pay a higher premium
for insurance, or get less coverage. I also feel this way about the seat
belt laws. Having a choice, even at a higher price, is better than NO
choice.

BTW, I live in Georgia, a helmet state, but when I ride in Florida or South
Carolina, non-helmet states, I still wear a helmet. I am just use to doing
so for 24 years. I still believe in choice, even at higher costs.
Post by Cayla
Post by "KATO"
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle
riders? OVER the age of
Post by "KATO"
21
Post by Cayla
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Check it out, then vote! Graphic images that may offend!
http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/news.php?artc=5340&s=e74768982787a90648400002eff555de
Post by Cayla
Since a helmet, to meet DOT, has to withstand an impact of
only 7 MPH, it would be interesting to know the speed these
"examples" were traveling. Pictures without facts are a
cheap shot cheaters trick.
--
"When I read about the evils of drinking,
I gave up reading"
'Henny Youngman'
Klowmhundur
2003-07-04 03:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
It should ALWAYS be freedom of choice! God, guns, and helmets.

-Klowmhundur
Timberwoof
2003-07-04 05:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klowmhundur
It should ALWAYS be freedom of choice! God, guns, and helmets.
GodS
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
Klowmhundur
2003-07-05 14:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klowmhundur
It should ALWAYS be freedom of choice! God, guns, and helmets.
GodS
:-)

-Klowmhundur
Malcolm
2003-07-04 20:39:45 UTC
Permalink
I love threads like this, because you tell half the story.

Most of those riders who demand the "freedom" don't have medical insurance.
So guess who gets stuck with the bill?

Yup, Joe Taxpayer.

Force them to have insurance first, or let their insurer know they ride w/o
a helmet.

Of all places, Kentucky has the right idea.
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of 21
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Zypher
2003-07-04 22:26:15 UTC
Permalink
If my state requires (which they do) me to wear a helmet, then, by proxy,
they SHOULD be liable for any consequences of their (the state's) law. But
they're not! When they (the state) are ready to print a list of "approved"
helmets, (which they haven't) and then accept the risk of those injuries
that are caused by me wearing the helmet, then yea, mandatory helmets.

But the state isn't ready to accept that responsibility, so in my opinion,
then NO.

We motorcycle enthusiasts all should be allowed to make an educated decision
for ourselves if I have to reap the consequences of my choice. And BTW;
having health insurance doesn't let the state of the hook. There's always a
ceiling per occurrence, (in most cases that's usually 1 mil) and once that
ceiling is met, then the state (and me or my family) pays. So for those
zealots that claim 'helmets save tax dollars' that isn't necessarily so. In
fact, the state probably spends a considerable amount of $$ on fighting
those helmet citations that are fought in our court system. And for those
zealots who think having health insurance will cover it, are sadly mistaken
as well.

As for the state wanting to save $$, if they're (the state) wanting not to
'flip the bill' for those in need, then stop paying the taxes. I don't mind
paying taxes when I know the $$ might go to some good. But (and usually it
does) when it goes to paying for some FAT LEGISLATOR who sits around making
stupid laws that only cost us more.... then I have a problem with that!
Like tripling our vehicle license fees because our government made bad
choices. Here's an idea, lets cut the Legislator's, Senators, and
Governor's pay for not doing the job they should be doing? That'll save a
whole lot more $$ than putting skid lids on some unsuspecting motorist who
now feels they're safe as a baby - when they're not!

To the rider who makes building codes a comparison to riding; those
choices that I make, that effect me are those choices that I should be
allowed to make in a free state. But those choices which ultimately would
effect someone else (particularly someone who is under the belief they are
safe) are those (choices) that are controlled. So running red lights,
driving drunk, building's with less than safe construction all affect others
and need constraint.

To the rider who feels that eating red meat is a problem, then he / she
shouldn't be a carnivore. Be a vegetarian. It's your choice. It's really
the 'fat' content that makes meats and foods 'taste' good. And to that, if
you have a heart attack, who's the one suffering? The state? I don't think
so. They are painful if you've ever had one, not to mention the uneasy
frightening feeling of dying.

To the rider who thinks riding is a 'privilege.' I bought the damn thing, I
should be able to ride it. Don't you think? If its on private land or
public land, either way I paid for it. The only time I think something is a
'privilege' is when I don't have a right, or can't afford the right to it,
and someone gives me the opportunity to try it, then it's a privilege. Like
knowing someone could be a privilege. They're giving you the opportunity,
but you don't have the right to know them. Or riding on someone's private
land (ranch), that could be a privilege. You don't have the right unless
the owner decides to let you on. But public lands, public 'rights of way'
or public roads, different story. I paid for them, I should be able to use
them. Don't you think?
--
Zypher
Post by Malcolm
I love threads like this, because you tell half the story.
Most of those riders who demand the "freedom" don't have medical insurance.
So guess who gets stuck with the bill?
Yup, Joe Taxpayer.
Force them to have insurance first, or let their insurer know they ride w/o
a helmet.
Of all places, Kentucky has the right idea.
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age
of
Post by Malcolm
21
Post by Cayla
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
RedDevil
2003-07-04 23:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zypher
If my state requires (which they do) me to wear a helmet, then, by proxy,
they SHOULD be liable for any consequences of their (the state's) law.
But
Post by Zypher
they're not! When they (the state) are ready to print a list of "approved"
helmets, (which they haven't) and then accept the risk of those injuries
that are caused by me wearing the helmet, then yea, mandatory helmets.
<snip, yadda, yadda, yadda>
What it boils down to, it's the law in most states...if you don't like the
law, get enough people to sign a petition to get a repeal brought up in your
next legislative session, so the people can vote on it. I think it's funny,
but seat belts are mandatory in most, if not all states now. Is that
infringing on your rights? If it is, petition to have it appealed. That's
the only way it's going to get overturned. Helmet law, seat belt law, any
other law that you feel restricts your right to chose, you do have the right
to petition for change, that's your voice. This is an old, very old
subject, that never gets resolved. I've been riding for 32 years, wearing a
helmet all that time, mind you, my choice, and wearing it hasn't detracted
from the thrill of riding a motorcycle one bit. Just like I put my seat
belt on every time I get in the cage, it doesn't take anything away from the
driving experience. A helmet saved my life, and that one time is all that I
need to convince me that I need to wear a helmet. If I never need it again,
I'll feel very fortunate, but the fact that I did need it that one time and
it was there to do it's job, is enough for me to always wear one. But, and
I say but, that is my choice. I personally don't care if you want to wear a
helmet or not, just like I don't care if you wear your seat belt. If you
get picked up for not wearing a seat belt, then pay your fine, but you can
say that you had the right to choose whether you wear one or not. Don't
wear a helmet, if you don't want to, and pay the fines when you get picked
up. It's your choice. Like I used to tell my troops in the Navy, "you can
do anything you want, as long as you're willing to accept the consequences
for your actions". That holds true in every aspect of where you think your
"rights" are impinged upon. I paid good money for my cars, just like I paid
good money for my motorcycle, but that fact doesn't give me the right to
choose to wear a seat belt or a helmet. It's the law in my state for both
and it's the law in most states....if you don't like it, you have four
choices: 1) disobey the law, that can get expensive, and eventually get
your license suspended; 2) Move to a state that doesn't have the law (that
can be totally disruptive and also very expensive); 3) Obey the law and live
with it; or 4) Get your legislature to repeal the law. But have your ducks
in a row when you approach them, they've already heard the "right to decide"
arguement, and to quote H. Ross Perot, "That dog don't hunt". You better
have facts and figures to back up your claim that not wearing helmets is
just as safe as wearing one. Then and only then, will you have a fighting
chance to get the law repealed. Until then....ride safe.

Red
'02 ULTRA

--------------------------------------------
Harley-Davidson Motor Cycles:
"If I have to explain...
You wouldn't understand."
Majicbringer
2003-07-05 22:04:28 UTC
Permalink
If rider wish to ride without helmets they should haveto carry $XXXXXX of insurance
because the insurance co's are going to raise the rates in any states that lets
riders go without helmets, and they pass that cost onto us. Then again, would
they lower the rates for the riders that do?
Sir Robin the Chickenhearted
2003-07-05 15:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zypher
If my state requires (which they do) me to wear a helmet, then, by proxy,
they SHOULD be liable for any consequences of their (the state's) law. But
they're not! When they (the state) are ready to print a list of "approved"
helmets, (which they haven't) and then accept the risk of those injuries
that are caused by me wearing the helmet, then yea, mandatory helmets.
But the state isn't ready to accept that responsibility, so in my opinion,
then NO.
We motorcycle enthusiasts all should be allowed to make an educated decision
for ourselves if I have to reap the consequences of my choice.
The problem is that operations like ABATE and their supporters feel the
need to spew lies about helmets. If you make a choice based on that
stuff, you are not truly making an educated decision.
Now what injuries do helmets cause? There's some doubt as to the
spinal injury claim, which is the only thing I know about.
In any case, those spinal injuries would otherwise have been head
injuries. A spinal injury is more survivable, and you'll still be the
same person should you recover. You may come out very different after a
serious head injury.
Janet Moon
2003-07-10 02:59:09 UTC
Permalink
Only two helmets have passed the DOT standards for impact protection in the
last five years, and even those carried tags that read "will not protect
from an impact of greater than 13 1/2 mph."
Post by Sir Robin the Chickenhearted
Post by Zypher
If my state requires (which they do) me to wear a helmet, then, by proxy,
they SHOULD be liable for any consequences of their (the state's) law.
But
Post by Sir Robin the Chickenhearted
Post by Zypher
they're not! When they (the state) are ready to print a list of "approved"
helmets, (which they haven't) and then accept the risk of those injuries
that are caused by me wearing the helmet, then yea, mandatory helmets.
But the state isn't ready to accept that responsibility, so in my opinion,
then NO.
We motorcycle enthusiasts all should be allowed to make an educated decision
for ourselves if I have to reap the consequences of my choice.
The problem is that operations like ABATE and their supporters feel the
need to spew lies about helmets. If you make a choice based on that
stuff, you are not truly making an educated decision.
Now what injuries do helmets cause? There's some doubt as to the
spinal injury claim, which is the only thing I know about.
In any case, those spinal injuries would otherwise have been head
injuries. A spinal injury is more survivable, and you'll still be the
same person should you recover. You may come out very different after a
serious head injury.
Mr. Creosote
2003-07-10 03:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet Moon
.
Post by Sir Robin the Chickenhearted
The problem is that operations like ABATE and their supporters feel the
need to spew lies about helmets. If you make a choice based on that
stuff, you are not truly making an educated decision.
Now what injuries do helmets cause? There's some doubt as to the
spinal injury claim, which is the only thing I know about.
In any case, those spinal injuries would otherwise have been head
injuries. A spinal injury is more survivable, and you'll still be the
same person should you recover. You may come out very different after a
serious head injury.
Only two helmets have passed the DOT standards for impact protection in the
last five years, and even those carried tags that read "will not protect
from an impact of greater than 13 1/2 mph."
Now, do you see what I mean here? There are dozens of helmets you can
buy which pass the more stringent Snell Memorial Foundation testing.
Also, how do you explain the DOT approval stckers on most of the helmets
out there? Did you just repeat something you heard, or were you trying
to con me?
Joe727
2003-07-04 23:18:47 UTC
Permalink
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have medical insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets and who do not have medical insurance.

Joe
Post by Malcolm
I love threads like this, because you tell half the story.
Most of those riders who demand the "freedom" don't have medical insurance.
So guess who gets stuck with the bill?
Yup, Joe Taxpayer.
Force them to have insurance first, or let their insurer know they ride w/o
a helmet.
Of all places, Kentucky has the right idea.
Post by Cayla
Should wearing a helmet be optional for motorcycle riders? OVER the age of
21
Post by Cayla
Shouldnt WE have the freedom to have the choice!!??
Vote Yes!!!
http://www.geocities.com/cayla1969/votekyw.html
Timberwoof
2003-07-05 00:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have medical
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets and
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple the
license to be foolish?
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
Joe727
2003-07-05 00:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Not at all. The fact of the matter is that since 1964, the official policy of the United States Government has been to recognize that cigarette tobacco causes cancer which is a known killer. Yet, the selling of cigarettes is still legal.

It is up to the individual to decide if he or she wants to consume tobacco products.

Joe
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have medical
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets and
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple the
license to be foolish?
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
bike: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle
charles
2003-07-05 10:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Not at all. The fact of the matter is that since 1964, the official =
policy of the United States Government has been to recognize that =
cigarette tobacco causes cancer which is a known killer. Yet, the =
selling of cigarettes is still legal.
It is up to the individual to decide if he or she wants to consume =
tobacco products.
Joe
And it should ALWAYS be up to the individual whether he or she should wear
a helment.

Charles
Joe727
2003-07-05 14:06:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Not at all. The fact of the matter is that since 1964, the official =
policy of the United States Government has been to recognize that =
cigarette tobacco causes cancer which is a known killer. Yet, the =
selling of cigarettes is still legal.
It is up to the individual to decide if he or she wants to consume =
tobacco products.
Joe
And it should ALWAYS be up to the individual whether he or she should wear
a helment.
Charles
Agreed.

Joe
Allen
2003-07-11 05:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have medical
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets and
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple the
license to be foolish?
If his foolishness harms only himself, absolutely.

Helmet use should be voluntary.
Cigarette smoking should be kept legal (but as secondhand smoke is
known to be toxic, municipalities have every right to ban smoking in
public areas).
Drug laws should be repealed (but operating a motor vehicle while
under the influence should be treated the same as a DUI, since an
impaired driver has a high potential of causing harm to others).
Seat belt use should also be voluntary.

Now if you smoke while riding lidless and while driving without a
seatbelt, and you use drugs as well, you've made some poor personal
choices if you value longevity. But for fuck's sake, it's your life.
Do with it as thou wilt.

As has been stated elswhere in this thread, the argument that lidless
riders raise insurance rates is unfounded, unproven, spurious.
There's no basis for it in fact. But some people cling to that
assumption like mouth-breathing Flat-Earthers, or True Fans convinced
that Elvis is one day returning to Graceland. Bah.

I'll continue to strap my Shoei onto my precious skull on nearly every
riding occasion, and belt myself into my cage when I have the
misfortune to have to drive. I quit doing blow and ecstasy without
any governmental prompting. I'm still trying to kick the nicotine
habit. And I'd do exactly the same thing, regardless of the laws of
the land. I don't need Big Mother telling me what's best for my own
corpus. None of my bad habits endangers another human being.


(squirrels are another matter entirely)

--
dredhead2.0 AT rcn DOT com
DoD 33-1/3
IBA #13026
Ric
2003-07-11 20:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have medical
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets and
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple the
license to be foolish?
If his foolishness harms only himself, absolutely.
Actually, the same arguement about tax dollars could be made on the
smoking issue. Just as many people who smoke do not have adequate health
insurance to cover the inevitable costs associated with the extended
disability that is caused by COPD, Lung cancer, and the rest. Those people
end up in long term care (extended care nursing homes, intensive care
wards at hospitals, etc.), all on Medicare, and Medicade. And yup, you
& I pay for it all. I don't have the figures handy, but I could easily
guess that the bill we all pick up keeping smokers alive, is far greater
than the bill from motorcycle accidents.

Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's your choice. Sensable.

Want to save tax dollars, forget the helmet debate, and outlaw cigarettes.
They kill more people, more painfully than motorcycles.


But that's just my opinion.

Personally: I have insurance, and I still wear a helmet.


-Ric
Stephen Fels
2003-07-28 14:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ric
Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's your choice. Sensable.
Not only do you have to carry insurance, you have to carry an _additional_
$10K in personal injury insurance (over and above the minimum required
insurance).
--
Stephen
Home Page: stephmon.com
Satellite Hunting: sathunt.com
AH#49
2003-07-28 16:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Fels
Post by Ric
Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's your choice. Sensable.
Not only do you have to carry insurance, you have to carry an _additional_
$10K in personal injury insurance (over and above the minimum required
insurance).
Well, we all know that an additional 10K coverage to our beloved
Insurance Companies will cure and cover anything....don't we?
Zypher
2003-10-03 18:33:33 UTC
Permalink
<<Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then it's
your choice. Sensable. >>

So I can purchase the "right to chose?"
--
Zyp
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have medical
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear helmets and
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple the
license to be foolish?
If his foolishness harms only himself, absolutely.
Actually, the same arguement about tax dollars could be made on the
smoking issue. Just as many people who smoke do not have adequate health
insurance to cover the inevitable costs associated with the extended
disability that is caused by COPD, Lung cancer, and the rest. Those people
end up in long term care (extended care nursing homes, intensive care
wards at hospitals, etc.), all on Medicare, and Medicade. And yup, you
& I pay for it all. I don't have the figures handy, but I could easily
guess that the bill we all pick up keeping smokers alive, is far greater
than the bill from motorcycle accidents.
Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's your choice. Sensable.
Want to save tax dollars, forget the helmet debate, and outlaw cigarettes.
They kill more people, more painfully than motorcycles.
But that's just my opinion.
Personally: I have insurance, and I still wear a helmet.
-Ric
sam francisco
2004-09-12 15:16:24 UTC
Permalink
Helmet's should be optional for experienced riders. There has been no
verifiable evidence presented to support the view that helmets prevent
injuries. In fact I can provide evidence to the contrary. I've rode since
1945 and I do wear a helmet. I wore a football helmet before the present day
ones were invented, but I wear them to prevent ear aches, not to prevent
"head injuries". Still, there are times while riding across the desert or
highways in Montana or Texas where there are no cross streets and the helmet
becomes an "oven". Peripheral view is limited, the heat becomes
uncomfortable and I'd love to be able to remove the helmet for a while. I've
also came across people with car trouble that needed a ride. I couldnt take
t hem to a town because of the helmet law.
Post by Zypher
<<Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then it's
your choice. Sensable. >>
So I can purchase the "right to chose?"
--
Zyp
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have
medical
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear
helmets and
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple
the
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
license to be foolish?
If his foolishness harms only himself, absolutely.
Actually, the same arguement about tax dollars could be made on the
smoking issue. Just as many people who smoke do not have adequate health
insurance to cover the inevitable costs associated with the extended
disability that is caused by COPD, Lung cancer, and the rest. Those people
end up in long term care (extended care nursing homes, intensive care
wards at hospitals, etc.), all on Medicare, and Medicade. And yup, you
& I pay for it all. I don't have the figures handy, but I could easily
guess that the bill we all pick up keeping smokers alive, is far greater
than the bill from motorcycle accidents.
Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's your choice. Sensable.
Want to save tax dollars, forget the helmet debate, and outlaw cigarettes.
They kill more people, more painfully than motorcycles.
But that's just my opinion.
Personally: I have insurance, and I still wear a helmet.
-Ric
Dust off
2004-09-12 15:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by sam francisco
Helmet's should be optional for experienced riders. There has been no
verifiable evidence presented to support the view that helmets prevent
injuries. In fact I can provide evidence to the contrary. I've rode since
1945 and I do wear a helmet. I wore a football helmet before the present day
ones were invented, but I wear them to prevent ear aches, not to prevent
"head injuries".
Then what caused your brain to become so stupid?
The glue huffing you do?
Heredity?
A misplaced javelin throw?
J***@yahoo.com
2004-09-12 21:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by sam francisco
Helmet's should be optional for experienced riders. There has been no
verifiable evidence presented to support the view that helmets prevent
injuries. In fact I can provide evidence to the contrary. I've rode since
1945 and I do wear a helmet. I wore a football helmet before the present day
ones were invented, but I wear them to prevent ear aches, not to prevent
"head injuries". Still, there are times while riding across the desert or
highways in Montana or Texas where there are no cross streets and the helmet
becomes an "oven". Peripheral view is limited, the heat becomes
uncomfortable and I'd love to be able to remove the helmet for a while. I've
also came across people with car trouble that needed a ride. I couldnt take
t hem to a town because of the helmet law.
In your case you can drive them with no helmet.
If its for the better in common sense, no violation of law
can occur.
I bet some dumb cop won't see it that way tho...
Post by sam francisco
Post by Zypher
<<Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's
Post by Zypher
your choice. Sensable. >>
So I can purchase the "right to chose?"
--
Zyp
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
I imagine the number of people who smoke cigarettes who do not have
medical
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
insurance vastly outnumbers the motorcycle riders who don't wear
helmets and
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
Post by Joe727
who do not have medical insurance.
So since those people are foolish, does that give those other poeple
the
Post by Ric
Post by Allen
Post by Timberwoof
license to be foolish?
If his foolishness harms only himself, absolutely.
Actually, the same arguement about tax dollars could be made on the
smoking issue. Just as many people who smoke do not have adequate health
insurance to cover the inevitable costs associated with the extended
disability that is caused by COPD, Lung cancer, and the rest. Those
people
Post by Zypher
Post by Ric
end up in long term care (extended care nursing homes, intensive care
wards at hospitals, etc.), all on Medicare, and Medicade. And yup, you
& I pay for it all. I don't have the figures handy, but I could easily
guess that the bill we all pick up keeping smokers alive, is far greater
than the bill from motorcycle accidents.
Here in Florida, the law states that you can ride with no helmet, if you
have insurance. If no insurance, you wear a helmet. Got insurance? Then
it's your choice. Sensable.
Want to save tax dollars, forget the helmet debate, and outlaw
cigarettes.
Post by Zypher
Post by Ric
They kill more people, more painfully than motorcycles.
But that's just my opinion.
Personally: I have insurance, and I still wear a helmet.
-Ric
Steve
2004-09-13 01:00:39 UTC
Permalink
I guess then, Indian Larry died because of another injury not caused by
falling off a moving motorcycle and damaging his skull causing death!
HuffieVA
2004-09-13 02:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve
I guess then, Indian Larry died because of another injury not caused by
falling off a moving motorcycle and damaging his skull causing death!
I think you are only hearing what you want to hear, but the point is a
helmet may very well saved Larry, but it may also have not made a bit
of difference, Its a choice we should all be able to make, let me ask
you this.... if you hit a car head on at 65 mph, does a helmet make a
difference ?, probobly not other than open/closed casket, just because
you should have a choice, does not in any way mean you have to not
wear one, so I have a hard time understanding why folks get so bent
out of shape over having a choice, unless of course you would feel
intimidated by those that chose not to wear one and gave up riding
because you felt uncomfortable riding without one, meaning you didnt
have the backbone to make the choice to wear one, even though you
would be free to do so, apparently thats the case, otherwise why would
you be so concernd that you would support infringement on someone
else's right to choose, if you want to wear a helmet thats fine, just
as its fine if you dont, thats what freedom is all about....

HuffieVA
Steve
2004-09-13 03:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by HuffieVA
I think you are only hearing what you want to hear, but the point is a
helmet may very well saved Larry, but it may also have not made a bit
of difference, Its a choice we should all be able to make, let me ask
you this.... if you hit a car head on at 65 mph, does a helmet make a
difference ?, probobly not other than open/closed casket, just because
you should have a choice, does not in any way mean you have to not
wear one, so I have a hard time understanding why folks get so bent
out of shape over having a choice, unless of course you would feel
intimidated by those that chose not to wear one and gave up riding
because you felt uncomfortable riding without one, meaning you didnt
have the backbone to make the choice to wear one, even though you
would be free to do so, apparently thats the case, otherwise why would
you be so concernd that you would support infringement on someone
else's right to choose, if you want to wear a helmet thats fine, just
as its fine if you dont, thats what freedom is all about....
HuffieVA
You are confused about what your right is and what your privilege is. It
isn't a right to be able to decide whether or not to wear a helmet, it's a
law that you must wear one, same as speed limits and all other laws. I
suppose you want to tell us why it is your right to beat the crap out of
someone, hurting them severely because they disagreed with you.

And just so we are straight, you may just be able to survive a head on at 65
mph, while wearing a helmet, because chances are you are thrown from your
bike and the helmet may stop your skull from being crushed like a melon.
HuffieVA
2004-09-13 05:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve
Post by HuffieVA
I think you are only hearing what you want to hear, but the point is a
helmet may very well saved Larry, but it may also have not made a bit
of difference, Its a choice we should all be able to make, let me ask
you this.... if you hit a car head on at 65 mph, does a helmet make a
difference ?, probobly not other than open/closed casket, just because
you should have a choice, does not in any way mean you have to not
wear one, so I have a hard time understanding why folks get so bent
out of shape over having a choice, unless of course you would feel
intimidated by those that chose not to wear one and gave up riding
because you felt uncomfortable riding without one, meaning you didnt
have the backbone to make the choice to wear one, even though you
would be free to do so, apparently thats the case, otherwise why would
you be so concernd that you would support infringement on someone
else's right to choose, if you want to wear a helmet thats fine, just
as its fine if you dont, thats what freedom is all about....
HuffieVA
You are confused about what your right is and what your privilege is. It
isn't a right to be able to decide whether or not to wear a helmet, it's a
law that you must wear one, same as speed limits and all other laws. I
suppose you want to tell us why it is your right to beat the crap out of
someone, hurting them severely because they disagreed with you.
And just so we are straight, you may just be able to survive a head on at 65
mph, while wearing a helmet, because chances are you are thrown from your
bike and the helmet may stop your skull from being crushed like a melon.
First of all ...

Speed limits and traffic laws are for the protection of all
riders/drivers/pedestrians etc... Therefore (For the most part) good
laws

Helmet Laws, and seat belt laws do nothing but protect the individual
who is or is not wearing/useing one, therefor neither of them have any
bearing on the safety of others, therefor by requiring an individual
to take part in what should be "VOLENTARY" is an infringement on ones
freedom to choose

I AM NOT AGAINST HELMETS - JUST HELMET LAWS

Second of all...

It isnt a law everywhere.

Third of all...

I wear a helmet 99% of the time, even when its a choice, and if it so
happens that during that 1% of the time I get killed, all I can say is
I died or was injured doing something I love to do...

I AM NOT AGAINST HELMETS - JUST HELMET LAWS

Fourth of all...

What are you talking about ? I
Post by Steve
"suppose you want to tell us why it is your right to beat the crap out of
someone, hurting them severely because they disagreed with you."
Its a freedom of choice thing, if there is no law you have the freedom
to wear one, on the other hand a law requireing you to wear one does
nothing to protect the public from anything,

You have the right to your opinion, and apparently your opinion is you
want to wear a helmet 100% of the time, thats fine, there is nothing
wrong with that, but it surely doesnt effect you physicall i any way
shape or form if my skull gets "crushed like a melon", weather I was
wearing a helmet or not.
Mike Schenk
2004-09-13 07:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by HuffieVA
Post by Steve
I guess then, Indian Larry died because of another injury not caused by
falling off a moving motorcycle and damaging his skull causing death!
I think you are only hearing what you want to hear, but the point is a
helmet may very well saved Larry, but it may also have not made a bit
of difference, Its a choice we should all be able to make, let me ask
you this.... if you hit a car head on at 65 mph, does a helmet make a
difference ?,
Yes, because if you're smart and you notice the crash is unavoidable you
will stand up on your footpegs. Thus being launched over the car. It is
likely your head will hit the pavement, but it won't be a head on crash
anymore and the helmet can do its job.

Mike
RainLover
2004-09-13 14:26:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:39:34 -0400, HuffieVA
Post by HuffieVA
Post by Steve
I guess then, Indian Larry died because of another injury not caused by
falling off a moving motorcycle and damaging his skull causing death!
I think you are only hearing what you want to hear, but the point is a
helmet may very well saved Larry, but it may also have not made a bit
of difference, Its a choice we should all be able to make, let me ask
you this.... if you hit a car head on at 65 mph, does a helmet make a
difference ?, probobly not other than open/closed casket, just because
you should have a choice, does not in any way mean you have to not
wear one, so I have a hard time understanding why folks get so bent
out of shape over having a choice, unless of course you would feel
intimidated by those that chose not to wear one and gave up riding
because you felt uncomfortable riding without one, meaning you didnt
have the backbone to make the choice to wear one, even though you
would be free to do so, apparently thats the case, otherwise why would
you be so concernd that you would support infringement on someone
else's right to choose, if you want to wear a helmet thats fine, just
as its fine if you dont, thats what freedom is all about....
Okay... you want "freedom", so how about this... YOU can choose to
wear your helmet (or seatbelt in a car), but your insurance company
can choose not to cover any injuries if you aren't wearing it... same
goes for the 'county' or state-funded hospitals... no helmet = NO
MEDICAL CARE whatsoever at taxpayer's expense.

Fair enough?

James, Seattle
hunter
2004-09-13 19:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by RainLover
Okay... you want "freedom", so how about this... YOU can choose to
wear your helmet (or seatbelt in a car), but your insurance company
can choose not to cover any injuries if you aren't wearing it... same
goes for the 'county' or state-funded hospitals... no helmet = NO
MEDICAL CARE whatsoever at taxpayer's expense.
Fair enough?
James, Seattle
The inevitable argument about the $ associated with no helmet is total
NONSENSE or bullshit, whichever you prefer. That argument is
irrelevant and a way to try to change the focus by people whom don't
have one. Why?

1. Hospitals are in business to save lives and make money. The
greater the injury the more it makes. If there were no injuries there
would be millions of people out of work and millions more poor people.
No need for doctors, nurses, drug companies, etc. The hospital and
doctors don't give a shit about how or why you are there, they only
care about fixing what is broken and collecting money. In addition,
severe brain injuries help advance science and promote research.

2. Insurance companies use an actuarial system that accounts for all
costs from all scenarios and then rates and charges accordingly. That
is what they exist for, that is why some people pay more, and some pay
less. All hospitals account for a certain amount of pro bono, or
charity costs and then deduct from taxes. Also, if you are
underinsured, many people have families that help, churches that help,
and brothers that help, ever been on a charity ride.

3. According to your logic, or lack thereof, I find that you would
not offer treatment to a fat (or not) homeless person that eats all
the "wrong" foods or doesn't eat properly because that would be
"choosing" the wrong thing when compared to what you would think is
correct in eating healthy, etc. Or you would not treat an uninsured
person that slipped on a sidewalk in the Winter and broke a hip or had
a head injury if that person was not wearing non-slip soles, or maybe
not treat a child that breaks an elbow while playing on the playground
while not wearing elbow pads, knee pads, or a helmet.

Cut me a fucking break!!!! You probably support abortion and say it
is a choice issue but won't allow any other issue to be choice.


//Hunter
'Key
2004-09-13 04:33:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by sam francisco
Helmet's should be optional for experienced riders. There
has been no
Post by sam francisco
verifiable evidence presented to support the view that
helmets prevent
Post by sam francisco
injuries.
have an accident, land on your head and scrape the helmet
down into the styrophome and then walk away.
try the same accident without a helmet and see if you walk
away.
been there, done that
Post by sam francisco
In fact I can provide evidence to the contrary.
provide it then...
--
"Key"

---snip---
Steve
2004-09-13 13:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Key
have an accident, land on your head and scrape the helmet
down into the styrophome and then walk away.
try the same accident without a helmet and see if you walk
away.
been there, done that
Exactly, it is obvious the individual in question has never been in a
motorcycle accident. Like you I have been unfortunate to be in one as
result of a driver not paying attention to me. The fact is I was wearing a
helmet and as my body and head rolled down the highway, banging off the
asphalt, I was glad my helmet was on. To this day I still have the helmet
as an example of what it did to save me from head injury.

You never know when an accident will happen, and why take the risk, that you
may never ride again because you hurt your head.

It's that simple, but then again if it was white some people would argue
it's black. That's why wearing a helmet was made law, because some people
can't understand the importance of wearing one.
WTH
2004-09-13 19:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve
Exactly, it is obvious the individual in question has never been in a
motorcycle accident. Like you I have been unfortunate to be in one as
result of a driver not paying attention to me. The fact is I was
wearing a helmet and as my body and head rolled down the highway,
banging off the asphalt, I was glad my helmet was on. To this day I
still have the helmet as an example of what it did to save me from
head injury.
You never know when an accident will happen, and why take the risk,
that you may never ride again because you hurt your head.
It's that simple, but then again if it was white some people would
argue it's black. That's why wearing a helmet was made law, because
some people can't understand the importance of wearing one.
It is great that a helmet helped you. Doubtelessly if everyone wore helmets
in cars, people would suffer less injuries from flying glass, protrusions,
impact collisions to the head et cetera. Why aren't you out pushing helmets
on everyone else as well?
Hell, you'd prevent exponentially more accidents by forcing everyone to have
breathalyzers in all vehicles from helicopters and aircraft down to
motorcycles. Do you think that should be law as well?

WTH
WTH
2004-09-13 19:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by 'Key
have an accident, land on your head and scrape the helmet
down into the styrophome and then walk away.
You obviously don't know how a helmet works in an accident. They don't
"scrape down", although I've seen a photo of a faceplate that did that, but
the guy raised his head during the slide to avoide putting 'nose to
grindstone' ;).

WTH
Michael Sierchio
2004-09-13 16:43:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by sam francisco
Helmet's should be optional for experienced riders. There has been no
verifiable evidence presented to support the view that helmets prevent
injuries.
Shall we try the Snell tests on your head? Or has that been done
already? Which would account for you appearing to be the offspring
of a troll and a moron.
JD
2004-09-13 19:47:25 UTC
Permalink
"Michael Sierchio" <***@camber-thrust.net> wrote in message news:4tqdnXFNUKy2U9jcRVn-***@speakeasy.net
|| sam francisco wrote:
||
||| Helmet's should be optional for experienced riders. There has been
||| no verifiable evidence presented to support the view that helmets
||| prevent injuries.
||
||
|| Shall we try the Snell tests on your head? Or has that been done
|| already? Which would account for you appearing to be the offspring
|| of a troll and a moron.

Sometimes I wear a helmet willingly, other times I tolerate it just because
it's mandatory. Anyone who believes that a helmet will significantly
increase the chance of survival is delusional. They increase the likelihood
of cervical breaks and do absolutely nothing to ameliorate damage to
internal organs. People like you, Mr Sierchio, sound like either idiots who
don't really know what causes death in motorcycle accidents or like a dealer
who makes a profit on the sale of peripheral accesories. Which is it with
you? Stupid or dishonest?

JD
Michael Sierchio
2004-09-13 20:22:40 UTC
Permalink
.... Anyone who believes that a helmet will significantly
increase the chance of survival is delusional.
Um, lessee -- compare fatality rates. Nope, your bald assertion is false.
... They increase the likelihood
of cervical breaks and do absolutely nothing to ameliorate damage to
internal organs.
1) Helmets do not increase cervical spine breaks, I invite
you to cite any evidence to support your assertion

2) Helmets protect the head -- arguing that they are useless because
they don't protect other parts is specious. Body armor, esp. CE approved
protectors, do mitigate the damage to chest, back, knees, elbows,
shoulders, etc.

I get it -- you're not a troll, you're a moron. <PLONK>
WTH
2004-09-13 20:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Sierchio
.... Anyone who believes that a helmet will significantly
increase the chance of survival is delusional.
Um, lessee -- compare fatality rates. Nope, your bald assertion is false.
... They increase the likelihood
of cervical breaks and do absolutely nothing to ameliorate damage to
internal organs.
1) Helmets do not increase cervical spine breaks, I invite
you to cite any evidence to support your assertion
2) Helmets protect the head -- arguing that they are useless because
they don't protect other parts is specious. Body armor, esp. CE
approved protectors, do mitigate the damage to chest, back, knees,
elbows, shoulders, etc.
I get it -- you're not a troll, you're a moron. <PLONK>
Maybe you should slow down and think about WHY he said it doesn't protect
internal organs. He was pointing out that why do they force you to wear a
helmet but not force you to wear leathers? Or body armor? Skid pads?
Boots, steel toed at that?

You're a typical usenet hothead, you expect everyone to not only read what
you post but what you mean, and you will not do the same for others.

WTH
Michael Sierchio
2004-09-13 20:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by WTH
Maybe you should slow down and think about WHY he said it doesn't protect
internal organs. He was pointing out that why do they force you to wear a
helmet but not force you to wear leathers? Or body armor? Skid pads?
Boots, steel toed at that?
The most significant piece of personal protective equipment, one
which makes the largest difference in terms of reducing serious
injury and death, is a helmet.

Trollman posted arrant nonsense, such as the trite old (false)
assertion that helmets increase cervical spine injuries. Did you
miss that?

I'm not arguing in favor of the "social cost" theory, or any
other justification for requiring non-minors to wear helmets.
I'm arguing against stupid arguments against helmets and
helmet laws.

No, I don't sell PPE for motorcyclists. I know something about
testing of helmets, garments and armor for motorcycling.
Trollman clearly doesn't.

WTH
2004-09-13 19:53:53 UTC
Permalink
The question of course is how far is 'too far'?

You can make arguments that forcing all school children to wear bike helmets
all day long will result in fewer injuries due to falling meteorites (only
the really little ones though.)

Personally, I think that if you wish to not wear a helmet or a seatbelt AND
ARE OVER THE AGE OF 21 you should be free to do so.

One of the reasons I truly enjoy riding is having the wind in my face, hair,
the roar of the air, engine, smells, sights. All of which are seriously
muted when wearing a helmet (maybe I'm part dog...)

WTH
Brad
2003-07-09 21:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Malcolm
I love threads like this, because you tell half the story.
Most of those riders who demand the "freedom" don't have medical insurance.
And where did this little nugget of wizdom come from? At least a year
of research, polls, and surveys I hope. For the record...I ride
without one, I support pro choice, AND would you believe I even have
insurance? Wow! Go figure!

And no...I won't blow you.

--harleyrdr1
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